In this interview, the host welcomes Hubert Coudurier, author of a book on Marine Le Pen. The guest analyzes the complex relationship between Marine Le Pen and Jordan Bardella, describing the latter as a "rastignac" who methodically prepared his ascent. They discuss Mediapart's revelations regarding Jordan Bardella's youth writings and the possible influence of Alain Soral. The guest argues that Marine Le Pen pursued a courageous "dediabolization" strategy to gain power, despite resistance. Finally, the exchange addresses the National Rally's position on Russia and the influence of media, particularly the Bolloré group, on the French political landscape.